Critiquing the September 23, 2015 Rapture Speculation

A couple of weeks ago I was asked to examine another date some people are looking to as the potential date of the Rapture: September 23, 2015. I did not know that some people were looking at that date when I was asked about it, so I was unable to provide a response until now.

I recently reviewed several websites which promote September 23, 2015 to see what kind of support its proponents use to claim that the Rapture will take place on this date.

  • Today I share my thoughts on the September 23, 2015 Rapture speculation.

The September 23, 2015 Rapture speculation begins with a non-traditional way to view Daniel’s seventy week prophecy, which is found in Daniel 9:24-27:

  • Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
  • Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
  • Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
  • Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many people believe that Daniel’s first sixty-nine weeks have already been fulfilled: The first week began with King Artaxerxes’s edict to rebuild Jerusalem’s walls and gates (Nehemiah 2:1-8) while the sixty-ninth week of Daniel was completed around the end of Christ’s First Coming.

In contrast, many people who believe that the Rapture will occur on September 23, 2015 believe that the first sixty-two weeks of Daniel apply to the First Coming of Christ while the next seven weeks of Daniel apply to Second Coming of Christ.

  • The first sixty-two weeks of Daniel have already been fulfilled since Christ made His First Coming nearly two thousand years ago.
  • The next seven weeks of Daniel supposedly began on the day when Israel gained control of East Jerusalem in the Six Day War: June 7, 1967, which proponents say represented the modern day call to “rebuild Jerusalem”. The seven weeks of Daniel are supposed to continue for 17,640 days (the length of seven prophetic weeks) from June 7, 1967.[1] The seven weeks of Daniel are supposed to end on September 23, 2015, which coincides with the Jewish Holiday of Yom Kippur.

Some proponents of the September 23, 2015 Rapture also claim that September 23, 2015 is the start of a Jubilee Year and even claim that Daniel’s seventy week prophecy also is a prophecy of seventy Jubilee Years.

The September 23, 2015 Rapture speculation has some connection to the Blood Moon Rapture speculation. I’ve read proponents of a September 23, 2015 Rapture date note the fact that 2015 is part of the upcoming tetrad of lunar eclipses as a reason to pay special attention to that year. My thoughts about the Blood Moon Rapture speculation can be found at the following links:

My Assessment of the Theory
In this section I discuss several of the issues I found while assessing the viability of the September 23, 2015 Rapture theory. The issues I bring up today are not all the issues I have with the theory, but are enough to give you an idea of what I think about the theory.

Before I begin, I understand that some people are excited that there are precisely seven prophetic weeks between the time when Israel gained control of East Jerusalem and Yom Kippur in 2015. In addition, I understand that people are also excited that 2015 is part of the upcoming tetrad of lunar eclipses. However, we should not let these considerations affect how we assess the theory. The theory should be evaluated based on whether it is feasible given what is found in the Bible.

A Prophecy of Seventy Jubilees?
There is nothing in Daniel 9:24-27 which suggests that the prophecy of the seventy weeks is also a prophecy of seventy Jubilees.

  • The Hebrew translation of the word “week” in Daniel is shâbûa‛, which actually means “seven”. “Seven” has nothing to do with Jubilee Years, which come once every fifty years (Leviticus 25:8-10).

In addition, even if Daniel’s seventy weeks also represented seventy Jubilees, September 23, 2015 would not be the start of the seventieth Jubilee year.

  • Some proponents of September 23, 2015 cite Luke 4’s account of Christ reading Isaiah 61:1-2 in the temple at the start of His Ministry as the start of a Jubilee Year. If you subtract multiples of 49 years or multiples of 50 years from September 23, 2015 all the way back 2,000+ years you will not have a Jubilee Year anytime near Christ’s Ministry under a September 23, 2015 Jubilee Year scenario.
  • Even if September 23, 2015 was a Jubilee Year, it would not be the seventieth Jubilee if you apply the prophecy given in Daniel 9:24-27. Daniel 9:25 suggests that the first week began with the call to restore and build Jerusalem. Using the seventy Jubilees logic, the call to restore and build Jerusalem should be the first Jubilee. If you add the timeframe of sixty-nine or seventy Jubilee cycles to that time period you will get a time period near the year 3,000 A.D. That’s way too far into the future…

A Jubilee Year?
How do some proponents of a September 23, 2015 Rapture date know that September 23, 2015 represents the start of a Jubilee Year? The articles I read were eager to proclaim that September 2015 is the start of a Jubilee Year, but they did not provide much evidence to support that conclusion…

The Possibility of Only 62 Weeks
For sake of argument, let’s assume for a moment that only the first sixty-two weeks were fulfilled at Christ’s First Coming. Recall that Daniel 9:25 suggests that the first week began with the call to build and restore Jerusalem. Consequently, the time between the call to restore and build Jerusalem and the time when Christ was “cut off” should be sixty-two weeks or 156,240 days.[2]

For sake of argument, let’s take Friday April 1, 33 A.D. as the date when Christ was “cut off” (I know some people may disagree with this date, but I am just using this date for illustrative purposes). If we subtract 156,240 days from Friday April 1, 33 A.D., we’ll end up going back in time to June 24, 396 B.C.

  • This date is too late to represent the start of the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Nehemiah began the process of rebuilding Jerusalem’s walls and gates several decades earlier (circa 444 B.C.).
  • In contrast, viewing the first sixty-nine weeks of Daniel as a time period from King Artaxerxes’s edict to rebuild Jerusalem’s walls and gates to Christ’s First Coming works: Link
  • Therefore, it is highly unlikely that there are only sixty-two weeks separating the call to rebuild Jerusalem and the end of Christ’s First Coming.

Matthew 24:36
We should not forget that Christ said that no one knows the day and hour of His Coming. Only His Father knows…

  • Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The proponents of a September 23, 2015 Rapture date are challenging this verse in my opinion by telling you that September 23, 2015 is the date of the Rapture.

It’s Speculation
Finally, it’s worth noting that some proponents of September 23, 2015 Rapture originally used this date to conclude that the End Times would begin in 2008. There has been no seven year peace treaty agreed to yet at the time of this writing (May 13, 2011), so I highly doubt that the End Times began in 2008.

  • This is an example of how September 23, 2015 theory is speculation which can be disproved with the passage of time.

My View
I do not view the September 23, 2015 Rapture theory as a viable one because of its inability to deal with the first sixty-two weeks of Daniel adequately. In addition, I do not see any connection between Yom Kippur 2015 and a Jubilee Year. Finally, I believe the theory is a challenge to Matthew 24:36 which suggests that only the Father knows the date and the hour.


[1] 7 Prophetic Weeks x 7 (Prophetic Years/Prophetic Week) x 360 (Days/Prophetic Year) = 17,640 Days
[2] 62 Prophetic Weeks x 7 (Prophetic Years/Prophetic Week) x 360 (Days/Prophetic Year) = 156,240 Days

54 comments: (+add yours?)

Robert said...

This site is very informative but what I have noticed is a tendency to try and debunk other revelations that has been given by God for all of our benefit. Just remember that what God has done is to give a bit of the puzzle so to speak to various brothers and sisters and it is up to us to put these pieces together. God will never give all the pieces to one person as it will make us arrogant and proud.

  Isaiah stated"...For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little (Isaiah 28:9-10).

In Genesis 1:14
And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and for years..."

If we fail to see these clues that has been left all over the bible and the revelations given to our brothers and sisters around the world we will surely miss what God is trying to show us.

Let us remember that the religious people of christ day completely missed the mark because the thought the new it all.  The wise men of the east were the only ones that were using the heavenly signs to tell them that the time had come.

Please let us stop debunking and put the correct pieces together so we know what God is saying.  This surely will help all of us.

God bless you all

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I was asked to assess this issue.  I did not even heard of this date until someone asked me to look at it.  Same thing applied to the Blood Moon speculation.  I did not even know about it until I was asked to assess it.  I probably would have never discussed these issues if I was not asked about them.  If people want to believe in these theories go ahead.  I am only raising some issues with these theories that I found while assessing them.    

I am working on trying to put the puzzles together.  The Ezekiel article from earlier this week is an update on my efforts to put together several pieces of the puzzle together.  This weekend I plan on working on it more.  

Arlene said...

I disagree that no one can know the time of the rapture or second coming.  Jesus was angry because they didn't know the time of his first "visitation".  He tells us in Rev. 3:3 that if we "watch" for the clues and signs, we can know.  Nobody could possibly know until Israel became a nation again in 1948 but  now we can know....and we should know.   According to Matt. 24:32-34, the generation seeing Israel become a nation again...and then regaining Jerusalem, will see both the rapture and the second coming of Jesus Christ. We just have to figure it out.  1948 +70 (generation in Ps.90:10) = 2018. Take away 7 years for Tribulation and look for rapture in 2011 connected to the harvests of the Feasts of God.  The church will be the wheat harvest, BUT the "bride" will be the barley harvest.....we are now in the counting of the omer.  It is day #29 today.  Jesus was taken up in a cloud on day #40.  The wheat harvest begins on Pentecost AFTER completion of the barley harvest.  Why does God tell us these things if He wants us to ignore them?  Figure it out!!  Pentecost and Trumpets signify wedding preparations.  See Matthew 25.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

To clarify, I believe we can get an idea of the general timeframe (Christ gave us some indications of what we would see prior to His Coming), but not exact date or hour.

Robert said...

I agree totally that no man or women is going to know the day or hour of his coming as the Bible clearly states that.  What really confuses me is why people can't figure out that Jesus did not say that no one will know the Year, month or week.

If someone was to say I know the week Jesus is returning then everyone would be quoting the scripture about the day and hour as if that includes week, month and year.

It is clear and I think all wise bible students will agree that the last days cannot start until the first seal is opened by Jesus and the antichrist rise and brings peace for 3 1/2 years. This first seal will start the last Seven years mentioned in Daniel and confirmed in Revelation.

Anything outside of this does not signify very much. 
So until this happens all the speculation that is going on do not mean anything.

What we must realise is this - why did Jesus die? You will get many answers to this question and most will be true to some extent but the answer that ties in with God's plan is the one that will help us to answer when he is coming back.

Jesus had to die because of God's unchanging words.  Once God has spoken, is word remains unchangeable. Therefore the breaking of his commandments will always bring the curse of death. Jesus cancelled the curse by dying an innocent man because the commandments were not broken by him.

What does this have to do with his second comming? It means that whatsoever has been spoken by God must take place, so it is no use speculating about anything. Let's just stick to the original words of the Bible and watch as the events unfold.

It is clear something is going to happen soon but we can't be sure until something specific happens according to God's word.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

Thanks for the well thought out comment

john said...

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Jon said...

The day that no man knows, Jesus is speaking about the feast of Trumpets and only my father only “knows” is also a Jewish idiom of which a Jewish groom would say when asked when is he going to get married ? When asked when are you getting married, the Jewish groom response back would be “only my father knows” So Jesus is speaking about the wedding feast of the Lamb of God and this will occur on the feast of Trumpets, shortly after which He will return to claim the body of Christ as His bride.  
The Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh HaShanah, is also known as the feast that "no man knows the day or hour." This is a Jewish idiom describing this feast because it occurs on a " new moon ".

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

Interesting thought...

Arlene said...

Perfect explanation!!!  We are told to "watch" for something, and the Feast days are "shadows of things to come" in Col.2:17.  The next Feast of Trumpets comes up on September 28/29 of this year.  It's not difficult to watch for one time every year.  Matthew 25:6 says that at "midnight" the "bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him."  Perhaps it will be then.  If not this year, we can always "hope" for next year at the midnight time.  This time is called "the blessed hope" in Titus 2:13.

Many have claimed that it could happen at any moment....but, to me, it's difficult to live that way.  Revelation 3:3 says that if we "watch" we will know when He is coming.   According to Revelation 4, we will be with our Lord Jesus before the first seal is opened in Revelation 6.  Those around the throne have crowns on their heads.  I understand those to be the crowns given during the judgement of the believers who have been raptured.

Connie45 said...

Revelation 4 does not say that we will be with the Lord before the seals are open.  It says that John (and only John) is called up to heaven to view the proceedings so that he can record them for the book of Revelation.  There is no precedent or reason for making the assumption that John represents the church in this passage. If he represents the church there, then he would have to represent the church everywhere else in Scripture, which would mean that we are to accept Mary as our mother, (Mariolotry) as Jesus specifically assigned that job to John.  Also, John was told that the events of Matthew 24 could apply to him, namely that he should expect to possibly endure the tribulation.  Pre-tribulationism says that the Olivet Discourse is aimed solely at the Jews because Jesus was speaking to the disciples (who were actually the first Christians when you think about it), and it does not apply to the Church, but applies to unbelieving Jews (which the disciples were not in that category so that doesn't work), but then they make one of the very Jews that it is supposedly aimed at represent the church when it is convenient for their theories. (Not to mention that Jesus did have Gentile disciples, so it was not merely aimed at the Jews.) You can't have it both ways.  Either he does represent the church or he doesn't. And the crowns on those elders do have alternative explanations. In Revelation 11 we are told that the time for the saints to be judged and rewarded comes after the two witnesses are martyred and resurrected.  That is at the time of the last trump or 7th trumpet judgment according to Scripture, not before the first seal is opened, so those crowns could not come from the rewards at the judgment of believers.

Arlene said...

Much confusion comes from not "rightly dividing the word of truth"...II Tim.2:15.  All scripture is given for our reading and understanding.  I never said that John represents the church.  Believers are the church.  The crowns are given at the judgment of believers before the Tribulation begins....see I Cor. 3:10-17.

The Tribulation is known as the "time of Jacob's Trouble...Jeremiah is judgment of the unbelieving world (Jews and Gentiles).  The church consists of believers and will be removed prior to this least the "bride" will.

So, if the crowns do not represent rewards for believers, then you tell me what they represent. There are many crowns given as rewards to believers, and you should know what they are if you expect to earn one.

There is much difference between the "last trump" in I Cor. 15:52, the "trump of God" in I Thess. 4:16, and the last of the 7 trumpet judgments in Revelation.  There are different purposes for the different trumpets.  See Numbers 10.

There are those in the church who will not go through the time of earth's trial....see Revelation 3:10.  However, there will also be those in the church who probably will...see Revelation 3:20 (they will be at the marriage supper, however)

I only understand the way the bible reads to me with the help of the Holy Spirit.  Luke 21:36 assures those who are "watching" that they will escape these things that are coming during the Tribulation.  Those that will be here will be scared to death at the things that will happen during this time on earth...Luke 21:26.  I do not believe that Jesus would call out His "bride" and then scare her half to death before He comes for her.  That makes no sense at all.  That time will be horrible beyond imagination.

This time of "grace" will end at the rapture before the Tribulation begins.  During the Tribulation, it will again be salvation by faith plus works as described in the Epistle of James (to the 12 tribes, which is not the church).  Again, we should "rightly divide the word of truth."

Connie45 said...

I agree with should rightly divide the word of truth, which is precisely why I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.  It simply is not in Scripture.  But you are certainly entitled to interpret Scripture any way you want. Christ promised us that we should expect to suffer, and I see nothing in Scripture that contradicts that. In fact I see this last generation being Laodicean and apostate, which is just one more reason that they do not merit escaping Satan's worst persecution of God's people ever. They need to be purged and refined and made white. 

I have found from much experience that lengthy explanations are not worth the effort when debating with people who are pre-trib in particular, so I won't spend the time doing so here as it would only lead to more of the same arguments and it most certainly would not alter your beliefs.  Just so that you do not spend fruitless time doing the same, I will tell you that I was brought up pre-trib and know every defense, argument, verse, etc. that is used to defend it.  I am versed in all the viewpoints, as I have spent decades studying them and tearing them apart as I subjected them to the test of "does it line up with ALL the Scriptures".  I know now what I believe, and can reconcile all the Scriptures to that belief without having to stretch them out of context, alter their order, or make unwarranted assumptions, so I am content with that.  If you are content with yours, there is no need for further dialogue on this.

Agitator1684 said...

It is said in the book of Daniel to seal up these words until the times of the end. Basically what he is saying is no one will understand the prophesies until the times of the end. WE ARE LIVING IN THE END TIMES. No one will know the day or hour because according to Jewish Feast of Trumpets A.K.A Rosh Hashanah no one knows what day the NEW MOON will rise thus starting the feast of trumpets celebration. The  Jewish will watch for the new moon over a period of three days. It could be the first day or the second or third. They don't know until it rises. This is what Christ was talking about when he said no man will know the day or hour. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we will not know the week month year or even a couple of days before. God said there would be signs in the Heavens and Mathew 24 describes in vivid detail of what to expect in the last days. Christs words exactly. I can assure you He is coming quickly. Repent and be right with God and do it now before it is too late. God Bless you all.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

Thanks for commenting

Endur64 said...

"The proponents of a September 23, 2015 Rapture date are challenging this verse in my opinion by telling you that September 23, 2015 is the date of the Rapture."Not so. This Holiday begins at the sighting of the crescent moon of which allows for a 48hr. period of time. No one knows the day nor hour. Also, the rapture occurs sometime "after" the revealing of the man of sin. If the 70th week begins before the end of April 2012 then the rapture could occur after the revealing of the man of sin mid-week in 2015.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I think the 70th week is most likely going to start in the fall period of a given year and I do not believe in a Mid-Trib Rapture, so I'll have to disagree with you.  

Dagian said...

What does Sept. 13, 2015 look like as a rapture date if 1/2 of the 70th Week was fulfilled at the crucifixion of Jesus, the abomination of desolation is a past event because the Dome of the Rock is the abomination standing in(or on) the Holy Place, there is no "peace treaty" because Christ was the One that confirmed the covenant (He died to save us) and there are only 3 1/2 years left of a "great tribulation" period that has been going on since Jesus died? 

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

That all seems like a big stretch to me.  We can't change the interpretation of Bible prophecy just to fit things with a certain date.

Calab88 said...

Maybe The Sept 2015 Date Has To do With The Following:
The Harbinger By Jonathan Cahn
The Harbinger:
the Ancient Mystery that holds the secret of America's Future.

The Harbinger with Jonathan Cahn Part 1

The Harbinger with Jonathan Cahn Part 2

1 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part 1 Jonathan Cahn

1 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part 2 Jonathan Cahn

1 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part 3 Jonathan Cahn

1 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part 4 Jonathan Cahn

2 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part.1 Jonathan Cahn

2 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part.2 Jonathan Cahn

2 The Isaiah 9 10 Judgment - Part.3 Jonathan Cahn

Mrsvass said...

THANK YOU! I recently came across this discussion and could not agree with you more.  As a born-again Christian raised in a fundamental, evangelical Baptist church, I was taught to believe in the pre-Trib secret Rapture along with all of the verses that supposedly supported it.  Something about it always bothered me, but I did not question the teachings because those were from Bible scholars and educated preachers so they must be right, right?  Hours of reading Scripture and online articles for and against have enabled me to stand firm in my belief that we WILL be called upon to endure great hardship during the Tribulation period, but we WILL pass through this refining process.  At NO time in history have the followers of God been removed from suffering for their faith.  The early Church deserved preservation from the Tribulation more than we weak, spoiled apostates!  God does not save us FROM, but He is able to save us THROUGH persecution.  Noah, Abraham, Lot, Jonah, Daniel, Shadrack, Meshack & Obednego, Elijah, Jeremiah among others were supernaturally preserved THROUGH their trials--"...a thousand shall fall by thy side and ten thousand by thy right side but it shall not come nigh unto thee...".  Revelation speaks of God's angels calling forth  His Elect from the 4 corners of the earth just prior to the pouring out of His wrath upon an unrepentant world.  When a woman finds out she is pregnant, she does not know the day or hour of her child's birth, but does that mean she cannot know the month and the year so she can prepare?  Like a pregnant woman, all of Creation travails together until the day of the Lord's return.  True, the Great Physician has not told us the day or the hour, but I believe he will, though His Word, give diligent seekers of His Truth the month and year of His return in glory and power.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I'm glad you were able to form your own stance on the Rapture and not rely totally on mainstream Bible prophecy scholars and preachers.  It's hard to form a stance on an important Bible prophecy topic which is at odds with what mainstream Bible prophecy teachers push.  That's why it is so important for people to do their own studying of the Bible.

Paulckranz said...

April 1, A.D. 33 was not on a Friday; it was on a Wednesday ( April 3, A.D. 33 is the Friday you are looking for. Jesus arose on Sunday, April 5, A.D. 33. The previous Sunday, March 29, A.D. 33 was Palm Sunday known as "until [y](AX)Messiah the (AY)Prince" (Dan.9.25). If the seven and sixty-two prophetic weeks are contiguous, that puts the "decree to restore and
rebuild Jerusalem" (Dan.9.25) on Sunday, March 8, 444 B.C. Going forward from this date the 17,640 days you cited we land on Sunday, June 24, 396 B.C. My question is what is the significance of the end of the first 7 of The Seventy Weeks?

If these dates are accurate, Resurrection Sunday was April 5, and the birthday of the Church occurred seven Sundays later on May 24, A.D. 33. So on Tuesday, May 24, A.D. 2033 is the second millenial birthday of the Church. That would be a good time for the Rapture of the Church. The Church began with the fall of the Holy Spirit and it is fitting that is will end with the removal of the Holy Spirit to usher in the Seventieth Week.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

April 1, 33 AD was a Friday on the Gregorian calendar (the one that is used today). The April 3, 33 AD Friday date comes up in the Julian (Roman) Calendar.  I think the 69 contiguous weeks could possibly have ended with the ascension of Christ on May 13, 33AD in the Gregorian calendar (May 15 33 AD in the Julian calendar). Going back 69 weeks, you'd end up with April 19, 444 BC on the Gregorian calendar (April 21, 444 BC on the Julian calendar). April 19, 444 BC on the Gregorian calendar was Nisan 23 on the Jewish calendar if I'm not mistaken.

Gunhand45 said...

You are counting your days wrong.  In Daniel's time, a year was 360 days; not 365.  Do it again and it fits---Perfectly.

Scott said...

Could someone please tell me where the word rapture is mentioned in the Bible? Also doesn't God warn us to watch for the signs and not to take the mark, which occurs during the Tribulation. Why would he do this if there was a pre-trib rapture?

Connie said...

I answered this question for someone on this blog once before and Wayne didn't seem to mind, so here we go again.

The word “rapture” does not occur in the
Bible. It is a word that was believed to have been coined from
something that William Shakespeare wrote. According to Etymology of the English Language
by W.W.Skeat, Shakespeare coined the word “rapture” from the Latin term
“raptus” which meant “to be seized” or “transported,” (both of which
describe the event that the word “rapture” is used to describe today.)
Shakespeare used the word “rapture” to mean “to be transported by a
lofty emotion or ecstasy.” One
can only assume that whoever coined this term to apply it to what
Scripture calls the “harpazo”  a Greek term which means “to seize, catch
up or away, take by force, pull, or pluck up” and which is translated in
English as “caught up,” (found in 1 Thess. 4:17) thought that it was a good description of that
event, as no doubt people will not only be transported, but one can only
believe they will be in a state of lofty emotion or ecstasy upon its
happening.  So if you are in a debate with someone over the reality of an event called the rapture, you can tell them that just because English word that we have coined to describe it is not there, does not mean the event doesn't happen. 

The word "Bible" is not in the Bible either, but we call it that don't we.  It is from the word "biblos."  Biblos was the Greek name for the papayrus plant that was used to make paper.  In time the word "biblos" came to be associated with the scrolls themselves (kind of like how we use "Kleenex" as a generic term when it is really a brand). The word "Bible" was invented by scholars from the plural for biblos, "biblia" meaning "little books." It is from the word "biblia" that the English word "Bible" was created by men to describe the Scriptures (given it is a collection of a lot of little books).  So neither of the words "rapture" or "Bible"  are in the Bible, but everyone understands what is being referred to in their usage.  For those that argue the no rapture scenario, because the word is not there, I say that then there also must not be a Bible for that word is not there either.

Connie said...

As for your second set of questions, my answer although some would disagree and that is their right, is that yes, God does give us signs to watch for and warns us not to take the mark because there is no pre-trib rapture.  That is a hopeful idea which is actually based solely on the spiritualization of a verse in Revelation 4 which has no reason to be spiritualized, except that to make the idea of pre-trib work one has to force the verse to mean what it does not.  Christ gave us the sequence of events in Matt. 24 and Paul gave the same order of events in 2 Thess. 2:1. 

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I did use a year length of 360 days

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I don't mind if you try to answer people's questions. You are very knowledgeable Connie. 

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I believe there will be a Rapture, but not a Pre-Trib one.

Connie said...

Thank you for the compliment, but I want to be careful not to run roughshod over you on your own blog.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

Your contributions are welcomed. People learn from you

Connie said...

I'm glad you think they do.  A lot of people would naysay you on that opinion. ;-)  I've got one dialogue going on now with a group who feel the temple (that the abomination is set up in) stands for our bodies or hearts.  Can't wrap my head around how they can think that given some of the Scriptures about the event and the fact that if AC sits in the temple (and they think it is their heart), they are basically saying he is sitting in their hearts, meaning they accept him and forsake Christ. Don't think they've taken that idea to its logical conclusion. Also waiting for an explanation about Rev. 11 where John is told to measure the temple and the altar, etc.  Should be very interesting to see how they spiritualize it.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I wouldn't underestimate their ability to come up with an explanation that leaves you totally perplexed. 

Scott Winberg said...

That's exactly where I am in understanding as well. I hear many talking of a pre-trb rapture but the Bible clearly states that we (saved Christians) will be united with Christ at the last trumpet sound, and after the dead in Christ rises first (first resurrection). Thanks for the response.

Connie said...

I don't think I'm ever going to get an answer to the questions I asked this group. They got off on going into some bizarre teachings on the abomination of desolation.  First they tell me the temple is our bodies, then they say the the first half of the 70th week was Christ's ministry, and his crucifixion was the abomination, but only the first of a list of abominations that somehow all fit into this mid-point, and the second half of this week is about to begin. They totally lost me with their reasoning.  Talk about spiritualization.  I gave up on them.  Couldn't compete with their reasoning or lack thereof.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

It sounds like you and them speak completely different languages...

I don't know how the layout of the comments system changed. If it proves to be a problem I'll see if I can get the old layout back.

Gerhard said...

Dear brother and sisters!

Yes, Jesus come back at Yom Kippur 2015, on
23./24. October 2015! This date is right, but it is "only" a
time-prophecy, but there is no special messeage in.

So there is another study, which confirms
also this return of Jesus Christ on that day, but with a message of repentance
and reversal, als written in Relevation 18:1-3, which will enligthen the
whole earth in the last 3 years!

Please come and study it too! Read

Thank you and give the Holy Spirit the
possibility to change your character (Rom 12:1).

DANIEL said...


DANIEL said...

there are 5 crowns for believers-1for those found watching and 1for those found rejoicing at his return we are commanded to know to earn these crowns . only the sleeping church will not know the day or hour.

fearless2000 said...

Where are these 5 crowns mentioned in scripture?

Shaun said...

Tell where the word trinity is in the bible, its not.. Its a modern word we use to describe the divinity. Same goes with Rapture. In the original Greek the word is -snatched away-.. Use some common sense in the one taken and the other left parables. . You come to the "Mystery" which was clearly described yet not named. Hense the modern word rapture.

Shaun said...

Your confusing the rapture-- meeting the lord in the air, - Not Jesus's second coming. With Jesus's second coming which will occurs at the end of the tribulation. This confusion is what created the two Pre-post trib theories in the first place. Jesus does not come in the pre trib. We are however raptured in the pre trib.

Connie said...

Let's take an honest grammatical look at 2 Thess. 2:1-4

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (this is clearly referring to the 2nd coming, as that is the only "coming" spoken of in the New Testament) and by our gathering together unto him, (the rapture - notice that the 2nd coming precedes the rapture in this verse.)

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (another name for the Day of the Lord) is at hand. [In other words, Paul is saying don't be afraid that the 2nd coming has happened (which initiates the Day of the Lord) and that you have not been taken in the rapture. Now why should they NOT be afraid that they have missed the Lord's Second Coming and being taken? Because there are signs that they will see beforehand and thereby know.]

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
(to what day is he referring? The day mentioned in the first two verses. The day when the 2nd coming occurs, Christ gathers (raptures) His elect, and then the Day of the Lord begins) shall NOT COME, EXCEPT there come a falling away FIRST, (the 2nd coming, the gathering, and the day of the Lord/Christ cannot occur until AFTER has been a falling away first, an apostasia, BEFORE the 2nd coming/rapture) and that man of
sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (the antichrist or beast is revealed at the abomination of desolation. This must occur before the 2nd coming, the gathering, and the Day of Christ/Lord.)

[4] Who opposeth and
exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so
that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is
God.(the abomination)

Some pre-trib say that the falling away is another way of saying the rapture, but the word "apostasia" means forsaking, so obviously it is not referring to a rapture. Not to mention that gathering together is not the same as falling away. They are opposites.

Let's look at another clue.

1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: (the last trump is the last trumpet, the seventh trumpet) for the
trumpet shall sound, [Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, (Christ is crowned king of kings and takes the earth back from Satan's reign)
and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.] and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, [Rev. 11:18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, (Day of the Lord) and the TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, (resurrection) and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD UNTO THEY SERVANTS the prophets, AND TO THE SAINTS, (rapture and Bema judgment) and them that fear
thy name, small and great; and shouldest DESTROY THEM (God's wrath, Day of the Lord) which destroy the
earth.] and we
shall be changed. Clearly Rev. 11:15-18 describes the 2nd coming and resurrection/rapture event, followed by God's wrath.

And yes Paul did know about the last trump. It is a Jewish teaching that three events occur at the last trump. The coming of the Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the Day of the Lord. It is the traditional teaching surrounding Yom Kippur. Even if he didn't know to what it referred, God does and God is the true author of Scripture. Daniel did not understand what he wrote, but he wrote it for our benefit. Paul gave us the essential clue for timing, but everyone ignores it.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

Feel free to post links to your articles if they save you the time in writing.a response

Connie said...

Thank you. I may do that.

B-man said...

What concerns me is that at the very end of the last two Jewish sabbatical years (7year periods) we have had a disaster. The first one was Sept 2001, and seven years later in 2008 with the housing/stock market crash. Both of these events happened exactly at the end of a sabbatical year. What resulted after these events, in my opinion, matches the description of the first two seals of the scroll in Revelations. For example, since 9/11 the spirit of conquering and to conquer has gone out into the world. Nations and ideologies have been defined, battle lines have been drawn and no one sees a solution to any of it except conquering. In 2008 the housing market crash exposed the fiat currency deception world wide. Peace has been taken from the earth over economic strife because we all know now that money is no longer real, but assumed. It is based on debt, not hard assets. The reality of money no longer exists for any nation, and the fall of the worlds currencies is only a matter of time. The next sabbatical year will end in Sept 2015. If we are seeing the seals being opened, then we will see a disaster that will result in global economic downfall and famine or food rationing. Just throwing that out there, and only time will tell.


Jer 25:4 And the LORD has sent to you all His servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, but you have not listened nor inclined your ear to hear. Jer 35:15 I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, 'Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given you and your fathers.' But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me. Dan 9:6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. Dan 9:10 We have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. *****Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets. Zec 1:6 Yet surely My words and My statutes, Which I commanded My servants the prophets, Did they not overtake your fathers? "So they returned and said: 'Just as the LORD of hosts determined to do to us, According to our ways and according to our deeds, So He has dealt with us.' " ' " Rev 10:7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets. (YOU'VE GOT TO ASK YOURSELF WHO ARE THESE SERVANTS??? BECAUSE IT SURE LOOKS LIKE HE-"YAHWEH" IS REVEALING HIS SECRETS TO! LET ME ALSO SAY THIS....YOU SAY THAT YOU LIKE RESEARCHING AND ANALIZING....GO AND RESEARCH THE ORIGINS OF THE RAPTURE, AND HOW IT CAME TO BE..., AND WHY. OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS BUILDING AN END TIMES ARMY, FOR WHAT? TO FIGHT IN HEAVEN??? WHY WOULD FATHER RAPTURE US TO FIGHT IN HEAVEN? DO YOU NOT THINK THAT FATHER CAN HANDLE WHAT HAPPENS IN HEAVEN? IT'S EARTH THAT'S WHERE THE BATTLE IS FOUGHT! FATHER WISHES THAT NONE PARISH....OUR LEAVING EARTH WITH SO MANY LEFT BEHIND IS NOT LOVE....AND IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT'S LOOKING TO FLY AWAY WHILE THERE ARE LIVES TO BE SAVED THEN THE LOVE OF YAHWEH IS NOT IN YOU AND YOU'VE PUT YOURSELF ABOVE HIM. LOOK, I MEAN NO OFFENSE BY USING LARGE LETTERS, I'M NOT YELLING OR SCREAMING AS PEOPLE ASSUME. IT'S JUST ME. OH AND THE LAW HAS NOT BEEN DONE AWAY WITH AS SOME WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE.....FIND OUT WHY THE JEWS MISSED THE FIRST COMING OF MESSIAH, AND WHY THEY ARE STILL MISSING IT TO THIS DAY...IT'S ALL IN THE BOOK. WHAT REALLY CAUGHT MY ATTENTION ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU LIKE RESEARCH, IF YOU TAKE THE WORD OF YAH BACK TO ITS ORIGINAL ORIGINS AND WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, LET HIM TEACH YOU THE TRUTH....JUST ASK HIM.)

Connie45 said...

Wayne can certainly speak for himself, but I felt the need to say something here. First, there is no reason to use all caps because "that is just me." Just turn off the all caps button. It is really annoying to read all caps and you automatically set people's backs up against anything you want to say before you even say anything. Second, did you read his article? From what you wrote, it would appear that you think he holds to a pre-trib view. If you bother reading his articles you will find he does not, nor does he even mention his view in this article. He was simply commenting on the speculation some people have made about the date mentioned above. i know as a blog writer that nothing is more annoying than people not reading your article thoroughly, assuming that they know what you have written when really they have no clue, and then making foolish comments because they have NOT read the article thoroughly. If you are going to go to people's blogs and make critical comments, at least have the decency to read them first to know what they are saying.

Prophecy Proof Insights said...

I agree with Connie with regards to the use of the all caps button. Using all caps consistently does not leave a good impression when seeking to gain credibility from your audience.

Anyway, I don't mention the Rapture or my views on the issue often because it's a divisive issue that can turn a certain segment of people off if you don't agree with them. Based on your reaction I suspect you think I am Pre-Trib, which isn't the case.

fearless2000 said...

There is nowhere in the Bible that supports the argument that the rapture occurs before the tribulation. I urge you to re-read Matthew 24:29-31 where it says the following: The rapture doesn't occur until after the tribulation. Any preacher who is teaching a pre-trib is leading Christians to accept a false Christ who will show up at the beginning of the tribulation. Do not be deceived. (KJV) Matt. 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Sean Allen said...

my birthday...

Arlene said...

It's been three years since I posted last, and a lot has happened in my understanding of things of the bible. I now do not believe that there will be a pre-tribulation rapture. This is taken from the bible doctrine of dispensationalism which tells of separate promises to the Jews in distinction from Christians.

God is no respecter of persons....Acts 10:34, for one.

Due to the Zionist plans for world domination, many of the teachings of the dispensationalists view bible scripture from footnotes rather than from the context of the verses. This is "private interpretation" of which we are warned in II Peter 1:20.

Also, the interpretation of Daniel 9:27 has been misinterpreted. The "he" is a reference back to the word "Messiah" and not the "people" in the previous verse. One must interpret the English written grammar that "people" cannot refer to "he" one is plural and the other is singular.

Dispensationalists also talk of a "peace treaty" to be signed in the "middle of the week". However, this "confirm the covenant" refers to what Jesus did on the Cross of Calvary. This is verified in Galatians 3:17. Scripture has to be compared with scripture for proper interpretation.

Nothing seems to signify a pre-tribulation rapture. We are told it will be at the last trumpet, and there is nothing pre-tribulation about that. What the bible tells us that we are to watch for is the manifestation of the sons of God. This is told to us in Romans 8:19. Whether this refers to the "man child" in Revelation 12....I am not yet sure.

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